Stock Market Tanking



Didn't we JUST go through all this?   PEOPLE!  The S & P downgrade is bullshit.  Okay,,, you don't like
the U.S. Treasury Note?  Where you gonna put your money?

Earnings on most companies coming in exceeding expectations.

The two big downers are unemployment and Europe. But the former is stagnant...no cause for a downturn and
the latter is, in a way, once removed as a problem.

Comments

Matthew said…
Easy, when while wall street tanks do the only smart thing.

Short wall street.

For example, looking at the foreign markets yesterday, I suggested to some people they look at shorting the bank industry that got us in this mess.

I suggesting buying FAZ, which is a triple leverage short fund (one that rises as the bank stocks decline) and it was up 17 points, or 27%

Cakewalk.
Goliath said…
Yes, I wish I had the cash to buy that! Keep me posted on your calls!
Anonymous said…
So frustrating...And on so many levels too!! :(

Jules

We wish we had more control over our 401K...We're somewhat limited in what we can invest in, and then to make changes we have a 48hr lag before the change becomes effective...So helpful...Grrrrrrr
Anonymous said…
Exactly Jules, makes me want to "invest" my money in offshore banking...or dig a hole in my back yard and bury it in a coffee can. :)

AN
Anonymous said…
DONT SELL NOW. THAT JUST LOCKS THE LOSS. BUY MORE. MANY BARGAINS OUT THERE NOW AND SOON.

BOB
Anonymous said…
I have many things I would love to discuss about this. Unfortunately I must be very careful not to do anything that will get me in trouble with FINRA. I actually got an email today that was sent out to all FINRA Registered REPS telling us to be very cautious about advice we give online. Internet advice is actually a direct violation of FINRA Regulations and they felt that today was a good day to remind us to be extra cautious. I will say that you may want to read up on what Warren Buffet has said about US backed debt securities and I will also say that Matt Chinn has made a rather interesting comment lately. You can Google what is happening between AIG and Bank of America to get an idea of what comment of Matt's I am referring to.

Brian Coffman
Anonymous said…
I have a basic idea of what's going on between AIG and BofA, but I can't find Matt's comments in relation to it...Since Brian can't, will Matt please point in the direction of the relevant comments??...Please??!!

And do we agree with Buffett's comments??

Jules
Matthew said…
Well, the banking industry keeps the entire economy moving. Loans, mortgages, finance, etc.

The banks were silly and listens to the greed of wall street. They packed your good lone of 90k with you making 100k a year with my horrible loan of 300k with me making 10k a year.

They were put into baskets per se.

These baskets were then graded by ratings agencies, and for whatever reason the ratings agencies, gave these silly, unreliable baskets, the best (AAA) rating they could.

Then Wall Street firms (like the vile folks at Goldman Sachs) began to trade the shitty baskets. So, when I default on my loan, the basket gets all shaken up. This is what caused the wall street clusterfuck in '08.

Then the government bailed them out.

So, a few years ago before this boondoggle happened, the banks NEVER should have loaned someone like Matt Chill 300k and the ratings agencies never should have rated these shitty baskets (default swaps) AAA.

As for the buffet comment, yea I agree. I tend to agree with 75% of what Buffet says. If you read Snowball, an official biography, you'll learn a great deal about the guy. He's a really simple guy and he invests the same way. If he likes the business, likes the model and he thinks it's simple he buys it.

Snowball is a must-read for any Buffett fan.
Matthew said…
I suggested shorting the banking industry because when Wall Street gets hit it's the banking industry that gets hit the hardest. (usually)

So, with the cumulation of some shitty job reports, steadily shitty unemployment and most importantly when one of the most respectable rating agencies downgrades the U.S. economy bond rating over the weekend I was pretty sure it was a sure bet at the point.

Another technical indicator is how the foreign markets reacted to the news of the shitty debt ceiling deal and the S&P downgrade. These markets, like Asia and Greece, open before the U.S. stock market. When they tanked based on us, I was certain.

Another great indication is the way the futures market are looking before the market opens. (Futures trade all the time [I think]) These are future predictions of a stock or market. People guessing the "future" value will increase or decrease. Something up or down a few points is normal. But when they're trading a few hundred points below, prepare for a shit storm.
Matthew said…
Lastly, I'll explain shorting. (Also, to make sure someone corrects me if I'm wrong.)

In order to gain value on a stock while it's going down you get a "short" position.

Shorting is when you are loaned the stock at a certain price and buy it back at a later time for the price it is when your selling back.

For example, if I borrow stock in GAW News Bureau when it's trading at $100 per share and "return" it a week later when it's valued at $80 I've made a $20 profit because it's decreased from the price I agreed to return it at ($100)

Likewise, if I shorted GAW news stock, agreeing to return it at pay the difference of the value, and the stock increased to $120 I've lost to pay for the amount in increased.

So the stock I suggested, FAZ is a fund that is short the banking industry.

(Note, this is was a triple leveraged fund, these sort of thingys are not supposed to be held more than like a day or two. They're more swing trade utilities than anything.)


I really hope that makes sense.

Someone please point out flaws if anything I've written is wrong. I want to make sure that's correct.
Anonymous said…
What worries me Matt is the fact that these institutional investors like AIG evidently purchased the mortgage backed securities you described based solely on their ratings from S&P, Moody's et al. Evidently none of the institutional investors did any due dilligence of their own or they may have uncovered some of these descrepancies that you have identified. It frightens me because institutional investors are supposed to know better. After all they are given the right to invest in things that we common people can't invest in because they have the knowledge and resources to practice due dilligence. It appears to me from what I have read that AIG is now suing BOA for $10 billion because their people are just now doing their due dilligence and they have found fraudulent claims such as the ones you alluded to from B of A. Had AIG done their homework prior to buying they might have saved themselves a ton of money and saved our nation from having to bail out at least one "To Big To Fail" company. Now I must be careful how I word this next statement so bear with me if it seems to ramble or does not make sense. If the company had done their homework they would have uncovered this and not made the purchase. Bank of America merged with Nations Bank in 1999. At that time Nations Bank was buying mortgages right and left. You do not need to dig too far into what Nation's Bank held to know that they had a lot of bad loans. If you or I can find it with our limited resources then AIG could have found it as well. It was really the 900 lb gorilla in the room for any company that bought any mortgage secured investments from anyone who brokered morgages for a decade before the whole deck of cards collapsed. What I am wondering is will this lawsuit from AIG bring any other lawsuits? I know that B of A is the biggest bank player in this game (especially when they took over Countrywide after the collapse.) But will this spill over? Will there be litigation against Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae down the road? This could potentially open up the old wound that we are still healing from.

Brian C
Anonymous said…
Matt the exact term for what you described is puts and calls. Are you selling short or long. The fund you refer to is fairly new in the investment world. Usually selling puts and call is reserved for institutional investors because the risk involved is so great. I am not supposed to give advice in a forum like this but I will say that I do not reccomend anyone ever invest in puts and calls. You have to have a ton of money you are willing to lose to do that.

Brian Coffman
Goliath said…
Matt-Predictions for the rest of the week?
Matthew said…
Brian has a great point. Triple leveraged funds are new. They're also not for the fearful. These things rocket one way or another.

Brian, FAZ is a Direxion fund ETF.

They hold the exposure and are traded just like a stock.

Now if we're talking about the options market I steer everyone away from them. Just like futures, there is enormous risk and they are confusing as hell.

Stock predictions for the rest of the week?

Hmmmmmm. I got my parents moreAAPLE Apple Computers at something like 356.00.

I still think AAPLE is a good choice right now.

Netflix isn't bad.

If you want risk, I've got a very long position in Linked In. Everyone in the world will tell you that it's a terrible play, but I think they're just holding on to their asses after the last tech bubble.

I'm sticking with AAPL and LNKD for the rest of the week.

Linked In @ 83.47
Apple @ 374.00

Those are my choices, but I didn't have a nationwide downgrade to tip me off ahead of time.
Goliath said…
Got apple bought linked in at 90 an sold at 105 ...Maybe should look at it again
Anonymous said…
Everyone will be checking out Aplle in the next few days. Their reports were just released and they out earned Exxon (This is a very impressive feat.) You will see a lot of action on Apple in the coming days.

you guys may be wise to look at some small caps as well.

Brian Coffman

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